OpenSim and Inter-Institutional Collaboration in Virtual Worlds - Informal Discussion

 

Discussion Leader: Noah Wittman/Zed Marseille, UC Berkeley

Location: Entropia (DLF’s Second Life island)

 

Summary/Key Points:

Noah Wittman--UC Berkeley, Co-founder of OKAPI (Open Knowledge and the Public Interest) http://okapi.wordpress.com/ led discussion.

•    He’s interested in OpenSim, open source software for 3D virtual worlds.

•    written in C sharp

•    Supports Linden Scripting Language & JavaScript

•    Runs cross-platform

•    Suggests that we could start inviting students to build virtual worlds and to code base as well

•    This would be a different level of skill and different students

•    Pulls together students from different disciplines: anthropologists, engineering, info studies students coming together

•    Commitment to openness, being able to own your code

•    Doesn't think it's necessarily the case that it will be cheaper or better than what SL is offering

•    toster Oh: See osgrid.org and opensimulator.org for more info

 

 

Pathfinder Linden: if you want to touch base with lots of them [educators in SL], you should stop by the Edu Support Faire next week

http://blog.secondlife.com/2009/01/10/second-life-education-support-faire-january-25th-30th-2009/

 

 

 

•    Key Questions

o    whether or not OpenSim worlds are silos or gridded together

o    which projects are better for Open Sim & which for SL?

o    what is important to you for grouping together?

o    As these things develop, is anyone evaluating the actual pedagogical value and success they provide?

 

 

 

•    Zed’s response: Working with students for several semesters. Started pulling them into project. Re-creation of archaeological site. Students enjoyed this. Turned into student-designed, student-directed course on virtual world design and development. Shows this succeeded. Student engagement, ownership of own learning incredibly powerful.

 

 

o    It’s hard to know what others are working on re virtual worlds, even in your institution or organization, so how about a clearinghouse of people, places, research, teaching? Would DLF be interested in doing this or possibly collaborating with NMC on it? [Note: Could be self-registry.]

o    So, Pathfinder, are there any updates on making the server source code available as open source?

•    Pathfinder Linden’s response: Tentatively Q2 going into beta

o    Question: so you're looking into making it interoperable w/the SL grid?

•    Audience Comment: My issues is the tremendous amount of resources, and objects I've created. It's such a waste having to start over from scratch on open sim. We need to be able to transfer our creations between worlds.

 

•    Pathfinder asked which important features attendees like or want to see in SL:

o    Like: Voice chat

o    Want: Facial recognition/gestures: smiling, eyes open/shut

o    Want: Initiative support for proposals re  development of educational games in SL

o    Pathfinder’s response: They’re trying to connect people who want to do this sort of thing with agencies and people who might fund them.

 

o    Comment: take a look at digitalpromise.org it is an project to create a 50 mil national center to focus on educational r&d

 

•    Comment: Also, it might be helpful if anyone wanted to put together a brief comarison of the various systems (SL, Opensim, Wonderland) to help in knowing the strengths of each as they relate to education.

 

 

•    Final note: Noah/Zed would like to continue the conversation on Entropia another time and focus on inter-institutional collaboration in virtual worlds. We will work on arranging for that.

 

 

Note: Transcript of text chat below, edited somewhat for typos and irrelevant information, with urls inserted, as references and partial notes combined to save space.  Alexandria transcribing for Zed, unless otherwise indicated. Alexandria Knight (Esther Grassian, UCLA)

 

[9:58]  Alexandria Knight: Hello, there!

 [10:01]  Zed Marseille: its noah wittman = zed marseille

 [10:03]  Alexandria Knight: Ok--Zed is our speaker, and he'll be right back

 [10:03]  Alexandria Knight: Or, I should say Discussion Starter

 [10:04]  Alexandria Knight: He said he wanted to use voice...

[10:04]  Alexandria Knight: I'll transcribe into text chat for those who may not be able to hear him

 [10:04]  Mirt Tenk: someone yesterday was talking about how good Dragon is for autotranscribing

 [10:05]  Pathfinder Linden: greetings

 [10:05]  Alexandria Knight: Well, I'd like to welcome all of you to DLF's Entropia island

 [10:05]  Alexandria Knight: On behalf of myself and Artemis Jacks, co-manager of this island

 [10:05]  Alexandria Knight: We're going to have a discussion shortly

 [10:06]  Alexandria Knight: on OpenSim and inter-institutional collaboration in virtual worlds

[10:06]  Alexandria Knight: I'm going to transcribe into text chat for those who may not be able to hear

 [10:06]  Alexandria Knight: Oh, DLF is the Digital Library Federation

 [10:07]  Alexandria Knight: Welcome, everyone

[10:07]  Alexandria Knight: And over to you, Zed...

 [10:07]  Alexandria Knight: Noah Wittman--UC Berkeley, Co-founder of OKAPI

[10:08]  Alexandria Knight: Open Knowledge and the Public Interest <http://okapi.wordpress.com/>

[10:08]  Alexandria Knight: Has been working on virtual world projects

[10:08]  Alexandria Knight: Got together with some others to share info re virtual world projects

[10:08]  Alexandria Knight: Suggests continuing this conversation

[10:08]  Alexandria Knight: Hopes to make this more a conversation...than presentation

[10:08]  Alexandria Knight: He’s not an expert, but…Will throw out questions and interests

[10:09]  Alexandria Knight: Interested in OpenSim

 [10:09]  Alexandria Knight: How many familiar with it?

[10:09]  Firery Broome: yes

[10:09]  toster Oh: Yes

 [10:09]  Pathfinder Linden: yes

[10:09]  Kayellemen Oh: not yet

[10:09]  Alexandria Knight: Excellent

[10:09]  Tess Linden: yep

[10:09]  Riven Homewood: a bit

 [10:09]  Alexandria Knight: Someone here from Linden Labs..

[10:09]  Alexandria Knight: Fantastic!

[10:10]  Alexandria Knight: Feel free to chime in with comments...

[10:10]  Pathfinder Linden: two of us here! :)

[10:10]  Alexandria Knight: Has only used OpenSim a few times [Noah/Zed]

[10:10]  Alexandria Knight: Open source software for 3D environments

[10:10]  Alexandria Knight: Piece of project like reverse engineered SL

[10:10]  Alexandria Knight: Can visit with Linden Lab SL ...

[10:10]  Alexandria Knight: Beta, not robust

 [10:11]  Alexandria Knight: Your avatar from SL is "Ruth"

[10:11]  Alexandria Knight: No clothes or other objects from SL brought over

[10:11]  Alexandria Knight: You run through objects

[10:11]  Alexandria Knight: It’s getting close to being a prototype

[10:11]  Alexandria Knight: But to get it up and running you must often do command line actions

[10:11]  Alexandria Knight: That's a limitation in terms of broad usability

[10:11]  Saijanai Kuhn sighs. no voice period

[10:11]  Alexandria Knight: Aim to create 3D application server

[10:11]  Alexandria Knight: It’s written in C sharp

[10:12]  Alexandria Knight: Supports Linden Scripting Language & JavaScript

[10:12]  Alexandria Knight: Runs cross-platform

[10:12]  Alexandria Knight: Supports open source ...

 [10:12]  Alexandria Knight: [Zed asks audience]: Please contribute ...

[10:12]  Alexandria Knight: Me: We may all be learning at this point, Zed... :)

[10:13]  toster Oh: See osgrid.org and opensimulator.org for more info

[10:13]  Alexandria Knight: Zed is exploring it himself

[10:13]  Alexandria Knight: re whether or not worth pursuing now

 [10:13]  Alexandria Knight: Suggests that could start inviting students to build virtual worlds

[10:13]  Alexandria Knight: and to code base as well

[10:13]  Alexandria Knight: This would be a different level of skill and different students

 [10:13]  Alexandria Knight: Pulls together students from different disciplines

 [10:14]  Alexandria Knight: Anthropologists, engineering, info studies students coming together

[10:14]  Alexandria Knight: Commitment to openness, being able to own your code

 [10:14]  Alexandria Knight: Doesn't think it's necessarily the case that it will be cheaper or better

[10:14]  Alexandria Knight: than what SL is offering

[10:14]  Alexandria Knight: But is probably an interesting complementary direction for some projects

[10:14]  Alexandria Knight: It’s a work in progress

[10:15]  Mirt Tenk: Do you have ideas RE which projects are better for Open Sim & which for SL?

[10:15]  Alexandria Knight: High barrier to use

[10:15]  Alexandria Knight: Incredible user base

[10:15]  Alexandria Knight: About access to people

[10:15]  Alexandria Knight: Ability to build things

[10:15]  Mirt Tenk: oh sure

[10:15]  Alexandria Knight: Potential for social environment and interaction

[10:15]  Alexandria Knight: Those are some thoughts he has about OpenSim

 [10:15]  Alexandria Knight: Wants to know if some of those questions, concerns that resonate with others

[10:15]  Alexandria Knight: Me: I have a question...

[10:16]  Mirt Tenk: Alexandria is doing a good job text summary

[10:16]  Alexandria Knight: Me: Is it a silo or more like SL with many different communities?

[10:16]  Mirt Tenk: currently a silo

[10:16]  Alexandria Knight: Me:  Where you can visit each other?

[10:16]  Mirt Tenk: Interop isn't available yet

[10:16]  Alexandria Knight: Me: Personally, I see SL as a benefit then...

 [10:17]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: Sims can be gridded together, but is silo re SL

[10:17]  Mirt Tenk: What entity enables the grid connection?

 [10:17]  Alexandria Knight: Mirt's question...

[10:17]  Alexandria Knight: Not sure if he can speak to how it's gridded together

 [10:17]  Tess Linden: maybe a better question is, what is important to you for grouping together?

[10:17]  Zed Marseille: osgrid

[10:17]  Mirt Tenk: Are you hosting your own Open Sim or purchasing space in a hosted world?

[10:18]  Alexandria Knight: He knows there are various communities gridded together

[10:18]  Alexandria Knight: and there are other technologies for doing that

[10:18]  Alexandria Knight: open source project?

 [10:18]  Alexandria Knight: Is this something that other universities are looking at exploring?

[10:19]  Alexandria Knight: Me: Another question...

[10:19]  Mirt Tenk: I'm interested in interop in connecting university vws

[10:19]  toster Oh: Looking at it, but only in the initial stages

[10:19]  Alexandria Knight: Me: Is Wonderland part of this?

[10:19]  Kayellemen Oh: That's why we're here

[10:19]  Alexandria Knight: Me: If so, there's a community college in Minn that's using it

 [10:19]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: Wonderland...

[10:19]  Alexandria Knight: Sponsored by Sun Microsystems

[10:19]  Alexandria Knight: Looks like they've made stronger connection in terms of campuses and businesses

[10:20]  Alexandria Knight: He thinks NMC ... one of heavy weights in virtual world development

[10:20]  Alexandria Knight: has dived in with them

[10:20]  Alexandria Knight: Harvard, NMC, exploring this Java-based Project Wonderland

[10:20]  Alexandria Knight: Me: By the way... this is me speaking

[10:20]  Mirt Tenk: I have a question about your experience w/Open Sim

[10:20]  Alexandria Knight: Me: I did visit that community college in Wonderland

[10:21]  Alexandria Knight: Me: It was ok, and a nice person there

[10:21]  Mirt Tenk: Zed, are you renting/purchasing property, or hosting your own?

[10:21]  Alexandria Knight: Me: But felt so isolated compared to SL

[10:21]  Alexandria Knight: Me: A silo again

[10:21]  guntherodu Waverider: As these things develop, is anyone evaluating the actual pedagogical value and success they provide?

[10:21]  Alexandria Knight: He's referring to the opportunity of hosting your own solution

[10:21]  Alexandria Knight: Q re pedagogical value

[10:21]  Alexandria Knight: Something he [Zed] found at UCB

[10:22]  Alexandria Knight: Working with students for several semesters

[10:22]  Alexandria Knight: Started pulling them into project

[10:22]  Alexandria Knight: Re-creation of archaeological site

[10:22]  Alexandria Knight: Students enjoyed this

 [10:22]  Alexandria Knight: Turned into student-designed, student-directed course

[10:22]  Alexandria Knight: on virtual world design and development

[10:22]  Alexandria Knight: Shows this succeeded

[10:23]  Alexandria Knight: Student engagement, ownership of own learning

[10:23]  Alexandria Knight: incredibly powerful

[10:23]  guntherodu Waverider: Thanks

[10:23]  Alexandria Knight: What else would you all say would count in this way?

[10:23]  toster Oh: Is there any documentation or your results in this aspect?

[10:23]  Alexandria Knight: Other thoughts/questions re OpenSim?

[10:23]  Alexandria Knight: Wants to hear ideas around cross-institutional

[10:23]  Alexandria Knight: and international collaboration among universities in particular

[10:24]  Alexandria Knight: One comment from me...

 [10:24]  Alexandria Knight: Me: It's hard to know what others are doing in virtual worlds

[10:24]  Mirt Tenk: With Open Sim, if you host your own installation, there are firewall issues @ universities

[10:24]  Alexandria Knight: even on your own campus

[10:24]  Alexandria Knight: Would be really great if we could have a clearinghouse of information

[10:24]  Alexandria Knight: Both sites and projects underway

[10:24]  Mirt Tenk: you'll need IT support to host on one campus & allow external logins

[10:24]  Alexandria Knight: including teaching and research?

[Zed: Would DLF be interested in hosting this?]

[10:24]  Alexandria Knight: Me: I'm personally interested

[10:24]  Alexandria Knight: We would have to ask the Director about that

[10:25]  Alexandria Knight: Artemis, what do you think?

[10:25]  Artemis Jacks: I think we could at least talk to the powers-that-be

[10:25]  Alexandria Knight: Yes!

[10:25]  Artemis Jacks: I think it would certainly be a worthwhile test

[10:25]  toster Oh: NMC can help in regard to cross-institutional collaboration.

[10:25]  Alexandria Knight: Is there support for something like this among all of you?

[10:25]  Artemis Jacks: excellent!

[10:25]  toster Oh: Indeed!

[10:25]  Alexandria Knight: Me: I think it would be great if NMC and DLF could collaborate on this!

[10:25]  Mirt Tenk: I'm interested. I've been running an Open Sim since August

 [10:26]  Mirt Tenk: You can also run an Open Sim on a flash drive

[10:26]  Alexandria Knight: Zed says interesting to peg SL to undergrad course

[10:26]  Alexandria Knight: or to project--research

[10:26]  Alexandria Knight: That seems like one of potentials for cross-institutional collaboration

[10:26]  Alexandria Knight: Also informal events, like public programs

[10:26]  Alexandria Knight: Unless you peg to ongoing scholarship, research or teaching

 [10:26]  Alexandria Knight: hard to get institutional buyin

[10:26]  Alexandria Knight: Hard to coordinate all of our efforts

[10:27]  Alexandria Knight: Global interconnected environment

[10:27]  Alexandria Knight: How do you bring people together from various countries

[10:27]  Alexandria Knight: Any thoughts from others?

 [10:27]  Mirt Tenk: Are you interested in exploring interoperable Open Sims?

[10:27]  Artemis Jacks: I've been hearing a lot more about starting an educational open sim in order to include K-12

[10:28]  Artemis Jacks: with teachers and teaching

[10:28]  Alexandria Knight: Sure, that would be fantastic--says Zed!

[10:28]  Mirt Tenk: b/c the application for edu seems fairly limited for self-hosting if you need the social component

[10:28]  Alexandria Knight: Me: There are some K-12 activities on Teen SL

[10:28]  guntherodu Waverider: On our campus my sense is that while some instructors may be exploring the use of these tools it's very individual at this point. Hard to know what's actually taking place.

[10:28]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: How can we support existing efforts and plug students into these

[10:29]  Alexandria Knight: Me: Exactly my point!

[10:29]  Mirt Tenk: Are you interested in having us use Open Sim in teaching to test it as a viable vw alternative?

[10:29]  Alexandria Knight: We don't know what others are doing even on our own campus

[10:29]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: That's right...

[10:29]  Mirt Tenk: So, test on both platforms?

[10:29]  Alexandria Knight: Considering having some parallel projects in OpenSim & SL

[10:30]  Alexandria Knight: Just tinkering and trying it out

[10:30]  guntherodu Waverider: The idea of a clearinghouse certainly is a good idea that would at least let us point instructors who might have some interest to a place to see examples.

 [10:30]  Alexandria Knight: Yes!

[10:30]  Mirt Tenk: sorry for all the questions, trying to understand the goals

[10:30]  Alexandria Knight: Could be set up on Google Docs

 [10:30]  Mirt Tenk: so, a clearinghouse of info RE what others are already doing?

 [10:30]  Pathfinder Linden: not to my knowledge

[10:30]  Alexandria Knight: Is this something that SL Educators group is doing?

[10:30]  Alexandria Knight: Me: I think there’s a list of educational institutions in SL

[10:31]  Pathfinder Linden: if you want to touch base with lots of them, you should stop by the Edu Support Faire next week

[10:31]  Alexandria Knight: But not projects and teaching

 [10:31]  Alexandria Knight: Where is that taking place?

[10:31]  Pathfinder Linden: http://blog.secondlife.com/2009/01/10/second-life-education-support-faire-january-25th-30th-2009/

[10:31]  Artemis Jacks: Is that the one on info Island

[10:31]  Alexandria Knight: Oh, great!

[10:31]  guntherodu Waverider: Also, it might be helpful if anyone wanted to put together a brief comarison of the various systems (SL, Opensim, Wonderland) to help in knowing the strengths of each as they relate to education.

[10:31]  Alexandria Knight: Thank you!

 [10:31]  Pathfinder Linden: and we'll be posting an update either tomorrow or Friday about the Faire

[10:31]  Daisyblue Hefferman: no, Artemis, Info is having a tech fair

[10:31]  Artemis Jacks: wonderful!!!

[10:31]  Mirt Tenk: When you say Open Sim, are you referring to Open Simulator, which is a VW you can host for yourself, or are you talking about another hosted VW that runs Open Simulator instead of SL and charges a fee?

[10:32]  Alexandria Knight: So, Pathfinder, are there any updates on making the server

 [10:32]  Alexandria Knight: source code available as open source?

[10:32]  Daisyblue Hefferman: yes

[10:32]  Artemis Jacks: yes!!

[10:32]  Kayellemen Oh: yes

[10:32]  gypsieanne Rasmuson: yes

 [10:32]  Alexandria Knight: Pathfinder: Tentatively Q2 going into beta

[10:32]  Alexandria Knight: CEO spoke about this in November

[10:32]  Mirt Tenk: Path, as standalone, do you mean not connected to the grid outside the univ?

[10:33]  Alexandria Knight: For those interested in OpenSim is it because

[10:33]  Alexandria Knight: for whatever reason you want your own substantiation of SL

[10:33]  Alexandria Knight: behind your own firewall?

 [10:33]  Alexandria Knight: are in Alpha testing on that

[10:33]  Mirt Tenk: is this connected to the SL grid or isolated?

[10:33]  Alexandria Knight: and moving into beta in Q2

[10:33]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: May connect into univ identity management system

[10:33]  Alexandria Knight: authentication log in

[10:34]  Artemis Jacks: Pathfinder - would it be connectable to SL?

[10:34]  Artemis Jacks: thank you Tess!

[10:34]  Alexandria Knight: Yes, from Tess Linden

[10:34]  Alexandria Knight: One of features they're looking into

[10:34]  Mirt Tenk: ok so you're looking into making it interoperable w/the SL grid?

[10:34]  Alexandria Knight: Pathfinder: Tess writes code

[10:34]  Alexandria Knight: So if these kinds of questions come up....

[10:34]  Alexandria Knight: Linden folks...

[10:35]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: Any other reactions to some of these thoughts?

[10:35]  Alexandria Knight: Opinions about what open source alts can & can't do?

[10:35]  Tess Linden: this is fantastic information for me to absorb

[10:35]  toster Oh: That's great news.

[10:35]  Alexandria Knight: Pathfinder: His focus at Linden lab is customer focus on

[10:35]  Alexandria Knight: academia and health care

[10:35]  Daisyblue Hefferman: My issues is the tremendous amount of resources, and objects I've created. It's such a waste having to start over from scratch on open sim. We need to be able to transfer our creations between worlds.

[10:35]  Alexandria Knight: Most interested in perceived needs that academics

[10:36]  Alexandria Knight: and health educators have in vw platforms

 [10:36]  Alexandria Knight: what's working well already

[10:36]  Alexandria Knight: If folks could share that info with him [Pathfinder Linden] in particular

[10:36]  Alexandria Knight: he'll bring that to his developers

[10:36]  Alexandria Knight: helps them with long-term strategy

[10:36]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: Voice chat is great!

 [10:36]  Artemis Jacks: Absolutely! It's wonderful to know who to share ideas with at LL

[10:37]  Alexandria Knight: Some 3d party developers developing camera-enabled facial recognition

[10:37]  Alexandria Knight: Is that something Linden Labs is working to support?

[10:37]  Alexandria Knight: Powerful way to connect with people

 [10:37]  Alexandria Knight: Still difficult in his [Zed] view when you don't have facial expressions

[10:37]  Alexandria Knight: To form human connections

[10:37]  Alexandria Knight: Smile, eyes shut, etc.

 [10:37]  Alexandria Knight: Pathfinder: Nothing they're doing directly but want to allow that type of functionality

[10:37]  Alexandria Knight: ideally

[10:38]  Alexandria Knight: Some kind of pluggable environment

 [10:38]  Alexandria Knight: where you could have these kinds of extensions to viewers

 [10:38]  Alexandria Knight: Thinks a lot about emotional bandwidth in virtual worlds

[10:38]  Alexandria Knight: Now have to press button to say you’re happy or use HUD

[10:38]  Alexandria Knight: Must make conscious effort to convey

[10:38]  Alexandria Knight: There's a great deal of potential to have cameras that would capture you

 [10:39]  Alexandria Knight: e.g., raise hand in RL & have avatar raise hand

[10:39]  Alexandria Knight: Will see moving away from explicit gestural cues to implicit

[10:39]  Alexandria Knight: Will be able to tell that your av is smiling in SL because you're smiling in RL

[10:39]  Alexandria Knight: Becomes more immersive

[10:40]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: Recently committed to improving Spanish

 [10:40]  Alexandria Knight: logged onto WebMocha(?)

[10:40]  Alexandria Knight: Can log on and look for someone learning English and pair up to help each other in a chat room

[10:40]  Alexandria Knight: Informal exchanges between people very powerful

 [10:40]  Alexandria Knight: Moving from text chat to voice to video

[10:40]  Alexandria Knight: Video is very powerful

 [10:41]  Alexandria Knight: Meeting you in this room similar

[10:41]  Alexandria Knight: The more auditory and visual cues the better

[10:41]  Alexandria Knight: Are you succeeding?

[10:41]  Alexandria Knight: Are people laughing, smiling?

[10:41]  Alexandria Knight: Makes conversations more interesting

[10:41]  Pathfinder Linden: cool

[10:41]  Alexandria Knight: Me: I agree!

[10:41]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: Perhaps a divergent path

[10:41]  Mirt Tenk: RE Open Sim, is anyone else here hosting an Open Sim w/goals for using in teaching now?

[10:42]  Alexandria Knight: Maybe this is a dif kind of world than videoconferencing

[10:42]  Alexandria Knight: Back to OpenSim

[10:42]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: Currently not using it

[10:42]  Alexandria Knight: Put in funding request to develop it for game project

[10:42]  Alexandria Knight: Didn't get funded

[10:42]  Artemis Jacks: I think that many of us face funding problems

[10:42]  Mirt Tenk: You can do it inexpensively

[10:42]  Alexandria Knight: Me: Sure would be great to be able to experiment with games for learning in SL

 [10:42]  Alexandria Knight: Funding is a big issue...

[10:42]  Artemis Jacks: which is all the more reason to collaborate

[10:42]  Mirt Tenk: the software for the host is free

[10:43]  Alexandria Knight: for staff time and development

[10:43]  Mirt Tenk: Open Sim & SL are not the same thing

[10:43]  Mirt Tenk: they are different VW engines

[10:43]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: Much funding for faculty and students

[10:43]  Alexandria Knight: Not much for staff

 [10:43]  Artemis Jacks: yep

[10:43]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: What works is going under radar and do in spare time

[10:43]  Mirt Tenk: you can install it on your own laptop for testing

[10:43]  Alexandria Knight: If you have an idea, just go for it

[10:43]  Kilrathu Dreadlow: take a look at digitalpromise.org it is an project to create a 50 mil national center to focus on educational r&d

[10:43]  Alexandria Knight: Me: Some of us have ideas but not enough technical expertise...

[10:43]  Mirt Tenk: you can also install both the Open Sim host and the SL client on a flash drive & carry it around w/you

[10:44]  toster Oh: It helps to get the buyin & assistance of the IT dept.

[10:44]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: Sometimes students from architecture dept can help build

[10:44]  Kilrathu Dreadlow: sort of like a nsf for learning tech

[10:44]  Alexandria Knight: Yes!

[10:44]  Kilrathu Dreadlow: it was authorized as part of the higer ed bill

[10:44]  Kilrathu Dreadlow: but needs approperations

[10:44]  Alexandria Knight: Question from me to Lindens..

[10:44]  Mirt Tenk: w/Open Sim, you can build on one installation, then save the whole build & put on another installation of Open Sim

[10:45]  Alexandria Knight: Have you considered offering initiative funding for educational game development in SL?

[10:45]  Alexandria Knight: People could submit proposals..

[10:45]  Alexandria Knight: Just developing proposals can get people thinking

 [10:45]  Alexandria Knight: Pathfinder: Interesting idea..

[10:45]  Alexandria Knight: In current economic climate, being a bit more conservative about money

 [10:46]  Alexandria Knight: Would like to connect people with other agencies

[10:46]  Artemis Jacks: fantastic idea Pathfinder!

[10:46]  Alexandria Knight: to connect people with others who could fund this sort of thing

[10:46]  Alexandria Knight: Works to try to educate people on what SL is

[10:46]  Alexandria Knight: So when they see these proposals go by their desk

[10:46]  Alexandria Knight: they'll understand--e.g., educational game development in SL

[10:47]  Alexandria Knight: Does the same with health care

[10:47]  Alexandria Knight: Me: Sounds great!

[10:47]  Alexandria Knight: Pathfinder: Tries to educate agencies

 [10:47]  Alexandria Knight: Me: Could have a directory of people who could speak with agencies about SL

[10:47]  Alexandria Knight: and help educate them about the potential..

[10:47]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: What are biggest misconceptions when talking with agencies?

[10:48]  Alexandria Knight: When talking about gaming...

[10:48]  Artemis Jacks: If you need volunteers to give anecdotal information to these folks, let us know!

[10:48]  Alexandria Knight: tries to let them know it's not a game

[10:48]  Alexandria Knight: Pathfinder: Like web, SL is a platform

[10:48]  Alexandria Knight: There are games on the web though web itself isn't a game

 [10:48]  Alexandria Knight: Similarly for SL

[10:48]  Alexandria Knight: In some places, SL classified as a game, e.g., NIH(?)

[10:49]  Alexandria Knight: Has been fixed now... no longer classified as a game

[10:49]  Alexandria Knight: It's important to educate folks like that

[10:49]  Alexandria Knight: Someone added SL to list of gaming sites

[10:49]  Alexandria Knight: Process ahead of us to educate people and make informed decisions

[10:49]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: We all support this

[10:49]  Alexandria Knight: Not just you

[10:50]  Alexandria Knight: Pathfinder: Makes SL a real eco-system of support

[10:50]  Alexandria Knight: working toward common goals

[10:50]  Alexandria Knight: with different skill sets

[10:50]  Alexandria Knight: Zed: Closing in on end of hour

[10:50]  Alexandria Knight: He's racing off to another meeting

[10:50]  Mirt Tenk: I'm interested in participating in any ongoing group rsch on Open Sim

[10:50]  Firery Broome: thanks for getting us together

[10:50]  Alexandria Knight: Thank you for coming out

[10:50]  Alexandria Knight: Maybe can continue conversation

[10:51]  Alexandria Knight: Zed would like to stay in touch with everyone

[10:51]  Alexandria Knight: new dev's for OpenSim and SL

[10:51]  Alexandria Knight: Let's explore next time cross-institutional project, especially international

[10:51]  Alexandria Knight: Thank you to all

[10:51]  Pathfinder Linden: take care folks

[10:51]  Kayellemen Oh: danke

 [10:51]  Alexandria Knight: Oh, yes, we have another Mellon Seminar coming

 [10:51]  gypsieanne Rasmuson: Thank you, I have a lot of interest in cross-institutional projects also.

[10:51]  Alexandria Knight: up in Digital Humaniaties

[10:51]  Alexandria Knight: watch for announcement about that

[10:51]  guntherodu Waverider: Were there any librarians here?

 [10:52]  Alexandria Knight: and we'll set up another discussion like this to continue the conversation

 [10:52]  Alexandria Knight: Thank you so much, Noah/Zed!!

 [10:52]  Alexandria Knight: Thanks to all for coming!

[10:52]  Zed Marseille: Thanks!